{"id":241667,"date":"2024-07-24T18:41:16","date_gmt":"2024-07-24T22:41:16","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/?p=241667"},"modified":"2024-07-24T18:47:32","modified_gmt":"2024-07-24T22:47:32","slug":"snipers-ordered-to-shoot-children-israeli-general-confirms","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/?p=241667","title":{"rendered":"<h1><b><span style=\"color: #003366;\">Snipers ordered to shoot children, Israeli general confirms<\/span><\/b><\/h1>"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><!--more-->Ali Abunimah<br \/>\nelectronicIntifada.net<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_241668\" style=\"width: 310px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-241668\" class=\"wp-image-241668 size-medium\" src=\"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/zvika_fogel-300x300.webp\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/zvika_fogel-300x300.webp 300w, http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/zvika_fogel-150x150.webp 150w, http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/zvika_fogel.webp 640w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-241668\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Israeli Brigadier-General (Reserve) Zvika Fogel (Wikipedia)<\/p><\/div>\n<p>An Israeli general has confirmed that when snipers stationed along Israel\u2019s boundary with Gaza shoot at children, they are doing so deliberately, under clear and specific orders.<\/p>\n<p>In a radio interview, Brigadier-General (Reserve) Zvika Fogel describes how a sniper identifies the \u201csmall body\u201d of a child and is given authorization to shoot.<\/p>\n<p>Fogel\u2019s statements could be used as evidence of intent if Israeli leaders are ever tried for war crimes at the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/electronicintifada.net\/tags\/international-criminal-court\">International Criminal Court<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>On Friday, an Israeli sniper shot dead 14-year-old\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/electronicintifada.net\/tags\/muhammad-ibrahim-ayyoub\">Muhammad Ibrahim Ayyoub<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>The boy,\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.alhaq.org\/advocacy\/topics\/gaza\/1218-20-april-2018-wilful-killing-of-four-palestinians-including-a-child-and-injury-of-252-protesters-in-fourth-great-return-march-week\">shot in the head<\/a>\u00a0east of Jabaliya, was the fourth child among the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/electronicintifada.net\/blogs\/maureen-clare-murphy\/israel-kills-child-and-crushes-bones-gaza\">more than 30 Palestinians<\/a>\u00a0killed during the Great March of Return rallies that began in Gaza on 30 March.<\/p>\n<p>More than 1,600 other Palestinians have been shot with live ammunition that has caused what doctors are calling \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.map.org.uk\/news\/archive\/post\/828-horrific-injuries-reported-among-gaza-protesters\">horrific injuries<\/a>\u201d likely to leave many of them with permanent disabilities.<\/p>\n<div id=\"file-60411\" class=\"file file-document file-text-oembed oembed-rich oembed-default oembed-twitter\">\n<div class=\"oembed-content\">\n<div class=\"twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered\"><iframe id=\"twitter-widget-0\" class=\"\" title=\"X Post\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/embed\/Tweet.html?dnt=false&amp;embedId=twitter-widget-0&amp;features=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%3D%3D&amp;frame=false&amp;hideCard=false&amp;hideThread=false&amp;id=987447628744003584&amp;lang=en&amp;origin=https%3A%2F%2Felectronicintifada.net%2Fblogs%2Fali-abunimah%2Fsnipers-ordered-shoot-children-israeli-general-confirms&amp;sessionId=8ca0b79e6e6edcd68cbc576fd9b26a55842b5061&amp;siteScreenName=intifada&amp;siteUserId=6721522&amp;theme=light&amp;widgetsVersion=2615f7e52b7e0%3A1702314776716&amp;width=550px\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\" data-tweet-id=\"987447628744003584\" data-mce-fragment=\"1\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>As\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/electronicintifada.net\/blogs\/ali-abunimah\/how-eu-pretends-not-see-israels-calculated-slaughter-gaza\">eyewitnesses and video<\/a>\u00a0confirmed, the child Muhammad Ayyoub posed no conceivable danger to heavily armed Israeli occupation forces stationed dozens of meters away behind fences and earthen fortifications on the other side of the Gaza boundary when he was killed.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Even the usually timid United Nations peace process envoy\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/electronicintifada.net\/tags\/nickolay-mladenov\">Nickolay Mladenov<\/a>\u00a0publicly declared that the slaying was \u201coutrageous.\u201d<\/p>\n<div id=\"file-60311\" class=\"file file-document file-text-oembed oembed-rich oembed-default oembed-twitter\">\n<div class=\"oembed-content\">\n<div class=\"twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered\"><iframe id=\"twitter-widget-1\" class=\"\" title=\"X Post\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/embed\/Tweet.html?dnt=false&amp;embedId=twitter-widget-1&amp;features=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%3D%3D&amp;frame=false&amp;hideCard=false&amp;hideThread=false&amp;id=987384245478985731&amp;lang=en&amp;origin=https%3A%2F%2Felectronicintifada.net%2Fblogs%2Fali-abunimah%2Fsnipers-ordered-shoot-children-israeli-general-confirms&amp;sessionId=8ca0b79e6e6edcd68cbc576fd9b26a55842b5061&amp;siteScreenName=intifada&amp;siteUserId=6721522&amp;theme=light&amp;widgetsVersion=2615f7e52b7e0%3A1702314776716&amp;width=550px\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\" data-tweet-id=\"987384245478985731\" data-mce-fragment=\"1\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h2>Targeting children<\/h2>\n<p>On Saturday, Brigadier-General Fogel was interviewed by Ron Nesiel on the Israeli public radio network Kan.<\/p>\n<p>Fogel is the former chief of staff of the Israeli army\u2019s \u201csouthern command,\u201d which includes the occupied Gaza Strip.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/electronicintifada.net\/tags\/ahmad-tibi\">Ahmad Tibi<\/a>, a Palestinian lawmaker in Israel\u2019s parliament, drew attention to the interview in a tweet.<\/p>\n<div id=\"file-60511\" class=\"file file-document file-text-oembed oembed-rich oembed-default oembed-twitter\">\n<div class=\"oembed-content\">\n<div class=\"twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered\"><iframe id=\"twitter-widget-2\" class=\"\" title=\"X Post\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/embed\/Tweet.html?dnt=false&amp;embedId=twitter-widget-2&amp;features=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%3D%3D&amp;frame=false&amp;hideCard=false&amp;hideThread=false&amp;id=987591680919588869&amp;lang=en&amp;origin=https%3A%2F%2Felectronicintifada.net%2Fblogs%2Fali-abunimah%2Fsnipers-ordered-shoot-children-israeli-general-confirms&amp;sessionId=8ca0b79e6e6edcd68cbc576fd9b26a55842b5061&amp;siteScreenName=intifada&amp;siteUserId=6721522&amp;theme=light&amp;widgetsVersion=2615f7e52b7e0%3A1702314776716&amp;width=550px\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\" data-tweet-id=\"987591680919588869\" data-mce-fragment=\"1\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>A\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.kan.org.il\/radio\/player.aspx?ItemId=29159\">recording of the interview<\/a>\u00a0is online (it begins at 6:52). The interview was\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.shunra.net\/\">translated<\/a>\u00a0for The Electronic Intifada by\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/electronicintifada.net\/tags\/dena-shunra\">Dena Shunra<\/a>\u00a0and a full transcript follows this article.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>The host Ron Nesiel asks Fogel if the Israeli army should \u201crethink its use of snipers,\u201d and suggests that someone giving orders \u201clowered the bar for using live fire.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Fogel adamantly defends the policy, stating: \u201cAt the tactical level, any person who gets close to the fence, anyone who could be a future threat to the border of the State of Israel and its residents, should bear a price for that violation.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>He adds: \u201cIf this child or anyone else gets close to the fence in order to hide an explosive device or check if there are any dead zones there or to cut the fence so someone could infiltrate the territory of the State of Israel to kill us \u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThen his punishment is death?\u201d Nesiel interjects.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cHis punishment is death,\u201d the general responds. \u201cAs far as I\u2019m concerned then yes, if you can only shoot him to stop him, in the leg or arm \u2013 great. But if it\u2019s more than that then, yes, you want to check with me whose blood is thicker, ours or theirs.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Fogel then describes the careful process by which targets \u2013 including children \u2013 are identified and shot:<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI know how these orders are given. I know how a sniper does the shooting. I know how many authorizations he needs before he receives an authorization to open fire. It is not the whim of one or the other sniper who identifies the small body of a child now and decides he\u2019ll shoot. Someone marks the target for him very well and tells him exactly why one has to shoot and what the threat is from that individual. And to my great sorrow, sometimes when you shoot at a small body and you intended to hit his arm or shoulder, it goes even higher.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>For \u201cit goes even higher,\u201d Fogel uses a Hebrew idiom also meaning \u201cit costs even more.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>In this chilling statement, in which a general talks about snipers targeting the \u201csmall body of a child,\u201d Fogel makes crystal clear that this policy is premeditated and deliberate.<\/p>\n<p>While presenting unarmed Palestinian children as dangerous terrorists worthy of death, Fogel describes the snipers killing them in cold blood as the innocent, vulnerable parties who deserve protection.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWe have soldiers there, our children, who were sent out and receive very accurate instructions about whom to shoot to protect us. Let\u2019s back them up,\u201d he says.<\/p>\n<h2>Lethal policy<\/h2>\n<p>Fogel\u2019s statements are no aberration but represent Israeli policy.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIsraeli officials\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.haaretz.com\/israel-news\/.premium-israeli-army-gears-up-for-gaza-mass-protest-1.5957896\">made it clear<\/a>\u00a0that the open-fire regulations would permit lethal fire at anyone attempting to damage the fence, and even at any person coming within 300 meters of it,\u201d the Israeli human rights group B\u2019Tselem\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.btselem.org\/sites\/default\/files\/publications\/201804_if_the_heart_be_not_callous_eng.pdf\">stated<\/a>\u00a0in a recent analysis of Israel\u2019s illegal targeting of unarmed civilians who pose no threat.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cNevertheless, all state and military officials have steadfastly refused to cancel the unlawful orders and continue to issue \u2013 and justify \u2013 them,\u201d B\u2019Tselem added.<\/p>\n<p>B\u2019Tselem has called on individual soldiers to\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.btselem.org\/firearms\/20180404_why_soldiers_must_refuse_to_fire_at_unarmed_protesters\">defy such illegal orders<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Following its\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/electronicintifada.net\/blogs\/ali-abunimah\/israeli-leaders-ordered-calculated-killings-gaza-protesters\">investigation<\/a>\u00a0of the \u201ccalculated\u201d killings of unarmed demonstrators on 30 March, the first day of the Great March of Return rallies in Gaza, Human Rights Watch\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/OmarSShakir\/status\/981103033827430401\">concluded<\/a>\u00a0that the lethal crackdown was \u201cplanned at [the] highest levels of the Israeli government.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Two weeks ago, the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court issued an\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/electronicintifada.net\/blogs\/ali-abunimah\/icc-warns-israeli-leaders-over-gaza-killings\">unprecedented warning<\/a>\u00a0that Israeli leaders may face trial for the killings of unarmed Palestinian protesters in the Gaza Strip.<\/p>\n<p>Potential defendants would be giving any prosecutor a gift with such open admissions that killing unarmed people in an occupied territory who pose no objective threat is their policy and intent.<\/p>\n<p>The question remains whether anything will finally pierce the shield of\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/electronicintifada.net\/tags\/impunity\">impunity<\/a>\u00a0that Israel has enjoyed for 70 years.<\/p>\n<h2>Full Transcript<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Brigadier-General (Res.) Zvika Fogel\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.kan.org.il\/radio\/player.aspx?ItemId=29159\">interviewed on the\u00a0<em>Yoman Hashevua<\/em><\/a>\u00a0program of Israel\u2019s Kan radio, 21 April 2018.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron Nesiel:<\/strong>\u00a0Greetings Brigadier General (Res.) Zvika Fogel. Should the IDF [Israeli army] rethink its use of snipers? There\u2019s the impression that maybe someone lowered the bar for using live fire, and this may be the result?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zvika Fogel:<\/strong>\u00a0Ron, let\u2019s maybe look at this matter on three levels. At the tactical level that we all love dealing with, the local one, also at the level of values, and with your permission, we will also rise up to the strategic level. At the tactical level, any person who gets close to the fence, anyone who could be a future threat to the border of the State of Israel and its residents, should bear a price for that violation. If this child or anyone else gets close to the fence in order to hide an explosive device or check if there are any dead zones there or to cut the fence so someone could infiltrate the territory of the State of Israel to kill us \u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nesiel:<\/strong>\u00a0Then, then his punishment is death?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fogel:<\/strong>\u00a0His punishment is death. As far as I\u2019m concerned then yes, if you can only shoot him to stop him, in the leg or arm \u2013 great. But if it\u2019s more than that then, yes, you want to check with me whose blood is thicker, ours or theirs. It is clear to you that if one such person will manage to cross the fence or hide an explosive device there \u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nesiel:<\/strong>\u00a0But we were taught that live fire is only used when the soldiers face immediate danger.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fogel:<\/strong>\u00a0Come, let\u2019s move over to the level of values. Assuming that we understood the tactical level, as we cannot tolerate a crossing of our border or a violation of our border, let\u2019s proceed to the level of values. I am not Ahmad Tibi, I am Zvika Fogel. I know how these orders are given. I know how a sniper does the shooting. I know how many authorizations he needs before he receives an authorization to open fire. It is not the whim of one or the other sniper who identifies the small body of a child now and decides he\u2019ll shoot. Someone marks the target for him very well and tells him exactly why one has to shoot and what the threat is from that individual. And to my great sorrow, sometimes when you shoot at a small body and you intended to hit his arm or shoulder it goes even higher. The picture is not a pretty picture. But if that\u2019s the price that we have to pay to preserve the safety and quality of life of the residents of the State of Israel, then that\u2019s the price. But now, with your permission, let us go up one level and look at the overview. It is clear to you that Hamas is fighting for consciousness at the moment. It is clear to you and to me \u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nesiel:<\/strong>\u00a0Is it hard for them to do? Aren\u2019t we providing them with sufficient ammunition in this battle?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fogel:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re providing them but \u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nesiel:<\/strong>\u00a0Because it does not do all that well for us, those pictures that are distributed around the world.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fogel:<\/strong>\u00a0Look, Ron, we\u2019re even terrible at it. There\u2019s nothing to be done, David always looks better against Goliath. And in this case, we are the Goliath. Not the David. That is entirely clear to me. But let\u2019s look at it at the strategic level: you and I and a large part of the listeners are clear that this will not end up in demonstrations. It is clear to us that Hamas can\u2019t continue to tolerate the fact that its rockets are not managing to hurt us, its tunnels are eroding \u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nesiel:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fogel:<\/strong>\u00a0And it doesn\u2019t have too many suicide bombers who continue to believe the fairytale about the virgins waiting up there. It will drag us into a war. I do not want to be on the side that gets dragged. I want to be on the side that initiates things. I do not want to wait for the moment where it finds a weak spot and attacks me there. If tomorrow morning it gets into a military base or a kibbutz and kills people there and takes prisoners of war or hostages, call it as you like, we\u2019re in a whole new script. I want the leaders of Hamas to wake up tomorrow morning and for the last time in their life see the smiling faces of the IDF. That\u2019s what I want to have happen. But we are dragged along. So we\u2019re putting snipers up because we want to preserve the values we were educated by. We can\u2019t always take a single picture and put it before the whole world. We have soldiers there, our children, who were sent out and receive very accurate instructions about whom to shoot to protect us. Let\u2019s back them up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nesiel:<\/strong>\u00a0Brigadier-General (Res.) Zvika Fogel, formerly Head of the Southern Command Staff, thank you for your words.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fogel:<\/strong>\u00a0May you only hear good news. Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>___<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/electronicintifada.net\/blogs\/ali-abunimah\/snipers-ordered-shoot-children-israeli-general-confirms\">https:\/\/electronicintifada.net\/blogs\/ali-abunimah\/snipers-ordered-shoot-children-israeli-general-confirms<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-241667","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/241667","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=241667"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/241667\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=241667"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=241667"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=241667"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}