{"id":40505,"date":"2020-12-08T12:00:55","date_gmt":"2020-12-08T16:00:55","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/?p=40505"},"modified":"2020-12-08T12:01:07","modified_gmt":"2020-12-08T16:01:07","slug":"admiral-giroir-slams-bans-on-outdoor-dining-as-without-scientific-basis","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/?p=40505","title":{"rendered":"Admiral Giroir Slams Bans On Outdoor Dining As Without Scientific Basis"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><!--more-->Authored by Jonathan Turley<\/p>\n<p class=\"speakable\"><a href=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonathanturley.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/440px-ADM_Brett_P._Giroir_USPHS.jpg?ssl=1\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-medium wp-image-166650\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonathanturley.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/440px-ADM_Brett_P._Giroir_USPHS.jpg?resize=240%2C300&amp;ssl=1\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 240px) 100vw, 240px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonathanturley.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/440px-ADM_Brett_P._Giroir_USPHS.jpg?resize=240%2C300&amp;ssl=1 240w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonathanturley.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/440px-ADM_Brett_P._Giroir_USPHS.jpg?resize=120%2C150&amp;ssl=1 120w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonathanturley.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/440px-ADM_Brett_P._Giroir_USPHS.jpg?w=440&amp;ssl=1 440w\" alt=\"\" width=\"240\" height=\"300\" data-attachment-id=\"166650\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/jonathanturley.org\/2020\/12\/07\/follow-the-science-admiral-giroir-slams-bans-on-outdoor-dining-as-without-scientific-basis\/440px-adm_brett_p-_giroir_usphs\/\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonathanturley.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/440px-ADM_Brett_P._Giroir_USPHS.jpg?fit=440%2C550&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"440,550\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"440px-ADM_Brett_P._Giroir,_USPHS\" data-image-description=\"\" data-medium-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonathanturley.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/440px-ADM_Brett_P._Giroir_USPHS.jpg?fit=240%2C300&amp;ssl=1\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonathanturley.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/12\/440px-ADM_Brett_P._Giroir_USPHS.jpg?fit=440%2C550&amp;ssl=1\" \/><\/a>Just before I was interviewed today on Fox about ongoing challenges to shutdown orders,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.foxnews.com\/politics\/white-house-coronavirus-task-force-members-fauci-giroir-california-lockdowns\">Admiral Brett Giroir was interviewed<\/a>\u00a0and gave what must have been welcomed views on the science behind pandemic orders. A hearing is scheduled tomorrow in one of the challenges by businesses in California to the lockdown ordered by Governor Gavin Newsom.\u00a0 Giroir however stated that there was no evidence or science supporting the type of categorical lockdown in states like California, particularly bans on outdoor dining. The statement presents a potential conflict with Dr. Anthony Fauci. It certainly contradicts the common narrative in the media and the recent election.<span id=\"more-166648\"><\/span>\u00a0Giroir is a widely respected public health expert who has reenforced a calm and science-based approach to the White House Coronavirus Task Force.<\/p>\n<p>As I discussed, courts have been applying greater scrutiny to these pandemic orders. The initial deference afforded to pandemic order tends to wane with time. The first such shift came predictably with\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/jonathanturley.org\/2020\/05\/30\/supreme-court-rules-5-4-to-uphold-pandemic-orders-limiting-church-services\/\">challenges based on the contravention of constitutional rights, particularly the free exercise of religion under the First Amendment<\/a>. Such challenges have the advantage of the higher standard of strict scrutiny.<\/p>\n<p>Now, however, there are renewed challenges for businesses under the lower standard of the rational basis test. This is due to the contradiction of some orders with known science or data on transmission rates and sources. For example, through the election, Democrats suggested that President Donald Trump was effectively\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/opinions\/2020\/07\/08\/trump-made-calamity-is-getting-worse\/\">trying to kill children by pushing to reopen schools<\/a>, including Washington Post columnist\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/jonathanturley.org\/2020\/05\/15\/washington-posts-rubin-misrepresents-emoluments-ruling-in-latest-trump-fueled-gaffe\/\">Jennifer Rubin.<\/a>\u00a0Rubin has\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/jonathanturley.org\/2020\/05\/15\/washington-posts-rubin-misrepresents-emoluments-ruling-in-latest-trump-fueled-gaffe\/\">previously shown a disregard of the factual foundation for her allegations<\/a>. Yet, Democrats have maintained until recently that schools must be closed due to the high risk of transmission despite growing scientific evidence to the contrary. \u00a0Ads running before the election cited Dr. Fauci in saying that opening schools was putting the lives of children at risk for political reasons:<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"embed-youtube\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/I8FuY1RbfD4?version=3&amp;rel=1&amp;showsearch=0&amp;showinfo=1&amp;iv_load_policy=1&amp;fs=1&amp;hl=en-US&amp;autohide=2&amp;wmode=transparent\" width=\"845\" height=\"476\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\" data-mce-fragment=\"1\"><\/iframe><\/span><\/p>\n<p>Recently,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.foxnews.com\/politics\/nyc-mayor-de-blasio-reopen-schools-coronavirus-parents\">Mayor diBlasio reversed his order to close New York schools after criticism over the lack of scientific support for the policy<\/a>. Indeed, it contradicts the long-standing findings of health organizations that young children show an exceptionally low risk for contracting or passing Covid-19.\u00a0 There are also studies showing the high cost of lockdown from massive economic losses to spikes in suicide to increasing medical (non-Covid-19) emergencies.<\/p>\n<p>Thankfully, courts tend to be more attentive to the factual foundation of their own conclusions.\u00a0 At most, they will find a mixed scientific record supporting the categorical bans.<\/p>\n<p>Notably, Dr. Anthony Fauci, said publicly that he supported the new lockdowns in California. However, Giroir referenced Fauci and the other Task Force members in saying that they have not seen \u201cany data that says you need to shutdown outdoor dining or outdoor bars.\u201d He said that the science does not support such categorical lockdowns, explaining<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cWe do, in a surge place, need to limit indoor dining, indoor bars, but you don\u2019t have to close schools, you don\u2019t have to close universities, you don\u2019t have to close your major industries . . . The science does not support limiting indoor dining and bars\u2026It\u2019s time to nuance. This is not March or April. This is December. We know what the science says, we know there are countermeasures that are effective\u2026<\/p>\n<p>\u2026Whatever the expression is, throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I think we could be causing a lot more harm by overly restrictive recommendations that are not supported by the science,\u201d he said. \u201cWhat I am saying is the evidence clearly does not support limitations on things like outdoor dining particularly that are spaced, outdoor bars \u2014 the evidence just isn\u2019t there. . . Shutting down completely, particularly if you don\u2019t have evidence, can be counterproductive.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>That is likely to be featured prominently in these increasing challenges to blanket shutdown orders.\u00a0 State and local officials will still be afforded deference but the science on some of these limitations can now be challenged. The best bet for governors is still the rational basis test which ordinarily presents an easy standard to satisfy. However, the call \u201cfollow the science\u201d may not be a clearly supportive in some of these cases. There now appears to be significant science-based arguments that can be raised in opposing to sweeping lockdowns. If a court is presented with science on both sides, the advantage still rests with the states and their pandemic orders. They will have to offer a rational basis for why such lockdowns are needed. That might include reducing the travel of parents with their children to schools and the need for significant numbers of adults to support school operations, including obviously the teachers. \u00a0In such a balancing, statements by experts like Admiral Giroir will likely to be raised and considered by courts.<\/p>\n<p>___<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/jonathanturley.org\/2020\/12\/07\/follow-the-science-admiral-giroir-slams-bans-on-outdoor-dining-as-without-scientific-basis\/\">https:\/\/jonathanturley.org\/2020\/12\/07\/follow-the-science-admiral-giroir-slams-bans-on-outdoor-dining-as-without-scientific-basis\/<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-40505","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/40505","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=40505"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/40505\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=40505"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=40505"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.co\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=40505"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}